Disclaimer: Nick Gallo is both a member of The Record and a National Youth Coordinator for Marianne Williamson’s campaign. He had partial control over the editing of this interview.
My interview has been edited for greater clarity.
Jacob Rodzen: In the same way that establishment politicians in early 1980s Burlington, Vermont, refused to let Bernie Sanders hire his secretary after his surprise victory as mayor, do you think Republicans and made Democrats would refuse to work with you completely?
Marianne Williamson: The first thing I want to say is that is a legitimate question. Let me say this. Anybody who supports my campaign, better get active not only in my presidential campaign, but in their primaries for congressional and senatorial campaigns as well because you’ve got a point. If I go in there and I’m popular enough with the people that I win the Presidency, but all you have in the House and the Senate is the old, same old, same old then it’s legitimate to worry that that I’m going to meet a wall of obstruction taller than I could override. Let’s talk about this, I’d still have the power of executive orders, I’d still have the power of the Presidency and I still have the power of the bully pulpit, but your point is well taken. The political revolution that is necessary has to be across the board. It has to be in the primaries. It can’t even just be voting Democrat or any of that, it has to be in on the level of the primaries. It could very much be what you’re just saying. On the other hand, there’s another way of looking at it. If you look at the effect that Trump has had on the Republican Party. I would hope I would have a similar effect on the Democratic Party. Not through the kind of coercive means that he exerts, but through the kind of influence that the party says, “You know what? Her progressive policies clearly got the White House, maybe there’s something there for us because remember the progressive policies that we discussed here are the policies that align with the American people in poll after poll.” So, I hope that my Presidency would open people’s minds to the idea that this is the best direction, not just for the country but for the Democratic Party, and let’s remember, I’m talking about returning the Democratic Party to the pillars of Franklin Roosevelt. I’m not talking about something new. I’m talking about something we already had.
Jacob Rodzen: When and why did you change your position on Medicare for all since 2020? If you get elected, how would you try to implement it?
Marianne Williamson: When I was running in 2020, I was convinced. That with Medicare, with Medicaid that everybody could be taken care of, and it was one of those Amazing Grace moments, I was blind, and now I see. Even now, there is so much more, for instance, that the President could do. The Bayh-Dole Act of 1980 gives the government what’s called marching rights if a pharmaceutical drug is developed with any US taxpayer money whatsoever, which is basically every drug then the government has what’s called the marching right to move in there and to reduce the price of that drug to an acceptable level. The US government has that power and rarely uses it, including the current President, who recently sided with a drug maker on the manufacture of a cancer drug. There are many countries with different systems of universal healthcare. I don’t think anybody’s is perfect but there are so many to look at. It’s simply much like what we were talking about before the American people enrolled in the idea that we are making this change. It’s not any government run healthcare system we’re going towards. It’s a government funded healthcare system that we are going for. The American people understand that one in four Americans are in medical debt, an entire $88 billion, 18 million Americans unable to afford to fulfill the prescriptions that their doctors give them. 68,000 people are dying from a lack of healthcare every year. 85 million Americans underinsured or uninsured. I will definitely use the Bayh-Dole Act to establish lower prescription drug prices than we have now. There is also a provision in Obamacare that allows the President to expand Medicare for All in polluted areas, I would use it in places like Jackson, MS and Flint, MI just like we have in Libby, Montana.
Jacob Rodzen: I understand playing into this issue with the mental health crisis. Why do you believe that your views on mental health issues are so controversial?
Marianne Williamson: Because they’re lied about. It’s kind of like it’s kind of like what someone else recently told me. It’s like creating a narrative about someone, that narrative being controversial, and then saying to that person, “Why are you controversial?” Psychotherapeutic drugs have a place in people’s lives, but pharmaceutical companies are clearly predatory in certain areas. It should not be considered a fringe position to suggest that Americans are over medicated. We know what happened with people are over-prescribed, like what happened with the Sackler family and the opioid crisis.
Jacob Rodzen: You have previously explained that you wanted to modify chemical, food, and environmental policy to support health. What are some examples of changes you would make?
Marianne Williamson: There was a time when, if an FDA inspector went into a grocery store, let’s say, and a food had a known carcinogen in it, that FDA inspector had a lot of power to say, take it off the shelves. Through the accumulated era of deregulation, the FDA inspector could at this point maybe write a letter to the CEO company and say, “Please, sir, would you consider putting less of that chemical that we know harms the developing child’s brain in your product?” This constant dismantling of safety regulations, health regulations, environmental regulations are literally making people sick, particularly children.
Jacob Rodzen: Do you believe that the Frank Lautenberg Chemical Safety Act of 2016 went far enough?
Marianne Williamson: Can you tell me what law that is again?
The Frank Lautenberg Chemical Safety Act for the 21st century required testing for chemicals in active commerce, required a safety review for chemicals already in active commerce. However, I think that it will take a very long time for testing of existing chemicals to be completed.
Jacob Rodzen: I’ve noticed that you have not posted much on the topic of infrastructure on your campaign website. So, I wanted to ask you, would you continue federal funding of California high speed rail system and in addition to that, how would you support infrastructure funding in general?
Marianne Williamson: Did you know that China has 22,000 miles of high-speed rail and we’re still arguing over Los Angeles to Bakersfield? It’s outrageous. You know, when I was a child, we traveled rather extensively. My parents traveled a lot, and you went anywhere in the world, and America had the best infrastructure. Nowadays, you feel almost ashamed when you see some of the public transportation systems that people have in different parts of the world. Of course we should have the best infrastructure, but if you’re continually fighting wars that you shouldn’t be fighting, if you’re continually creating tax cuts for the very, very rich, if you’re continuing to give billions of dollars in corporate subsidies to the corporate aristocrats who are already making billions of dollars, if you’re continuing to fund such a gargantuan defense budget, if you’re continuing to deny the need for a wealth tax at 2% on those worth 50 million or more and an additional 1% on billionaires then you won’t have the cash to do this stuff.
Jacob Rodzen: So just to be clear, you would support raising taxes to fund infrastructure developments within the United States?
Marianne Williamson: I would support raising taxes to fund whatever it is we need to fund to make people able to thrive in their lives so that once again it’s a government of the people, by the people and for the people, as opposed to government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations. Yes, I’d like to stop giving away our tax dollars, to choose corporate interests and their CEO’s and their billionaire donors. Yes, I would like that.
Jacob Rodzen: Would you support the PRO Act?
Marianne Williamson: Yes, I would.
Jacob Rodzen: How would you approach police reform?
Marianne Williamson: There are some serious problems, and one of the first things I would do is bring Cory Booker and Tim Scott together and talk about serious police reform, but I would also pull together some police chiefs from all over the country that are known for their more enlightened attitudes about policing, and I would hear the best ideas. Some things go deep, we have some very deep problems here and they can’t be rooted out by saying, “OK, the president just fixed it.” I would start addressing the deeper issues.
Jacob Rodzen: I know Robert Reich mentioned that he supports having police unions for negotiating wages and benefits, but not for how laws are enforced.
Marianne Williamson: I’m a big fan of his and agree with the idea.
Jacob Rodzen: Which drugs would you support legalizing, and which would you not?
Marianne Williamson: In general, I want to end the War on drugs. I believe that decriminalization is the way to go. I believe that we should treat drug addiction as a as a health issue rather than criminal issue, much like countries like.
Jacob Rodzen: Portugal?
Marianne Williamson: Yes. In particular, what I am deeply concerned about, as many of us are, is fentanyl. I’m very concerned about fentanyl because due to the situation we have now, we can’t even get Snapchat to agree to give us the information we need in order to stop some of the flow killing American teenagers who just think that they’re hot, they’re getting a Xanax over the Internet. We’re now at a point and we must tell America’s children this, “We are now at a point where, to be honest. There is no risk-free recreational drug in this country.” Given the flow of fentanyl, something the Canadians are doing that interests me, Canadians are setting up testing centers. You can go in with whatever drug you have, no matter what the drug. You will not be identified. Nobody’s going to take your name. Nobody’s going to. Take your picture and you can have your drug tested. At this point I just want to save lives.
Jacob Rodzen: Would you do this even at the risk of violating civil liberties by searching through people’s social media accounts?
Marianne Williamson: Oh, in terms of fentanyl? On a platform like Snapchat? This has to do with Snapchat, the company itself. If there is a known fentanyl, if there is a known procurer of fentanyl. I would have no problem saying to Snapchat. We need those names. I do believe that’s an emergency. I mean, the President has a has the capacity to declare an emergency fentanyl as a national emergency at this point.
Jacob Rodzen: What are your views on the Israel-Palestine conflict?
Marianne Williamson: Israel has a moral flaw, just like the United States in our own founding did, and they’re going to have to deal with it. International law does not give you the right to occupy a territory at infinitum. We have a big problem there because the Government of Israel has moved in an extremely right-wing direction, even a former head of Mossad is now saying this is not the Netanyahu that I knew. The United States has a memorandum of understanding with Israel until 2028, so the 3.8 billion that gives that we give to them every year is non-negotiable. At this point, however, the United States has every right to make sure that no money that comes from the United States is used by the Israeli government in any way that transgresses human rights. We should hold Israel accountable the way that we should be holding every nation accountable.
Jacob Rodzen: My last question is what is your advice for young people who want to become involved in political activism?
Marianne Williamson: Start now. Just do it. What you’re doing is fantastic. I don’t think they need me to tell them what to do because, man, you’ve clearly figured out what to do. What I would like to say is good on you kids. Keep going and with me as president, you will feel someone trying to support you and your dreams. I always say that we need a mother in the Oval Office. When it comes to your right to protest, when it comes to your making your voices heard, get started now and think not just in terms of influencing politicians, think in terms of replacing them. I know teenagers who are active in campaigns. You know you can be involved; you just can’t vote yet till you’re 18 and then you’re ready to hit the ground running when you can vote. We now we have a Gen Z member of Congress. The only way we’re going to save our democracy at this point, possibly even save our planet, is through an upping of our sense of civic engagement. I want people, including young people, to start seeing political activism, start seeing civic engagement as simply a layer of a well lived, meaningful life, and I believe as president there would be a sense of inspiration to do that.
